Too many high school classes in Kansas?
July 3, 2008 @ 10:29 a.m. by Joannaby joanna
This isn’t the first time I’ve thought about this, but I read a story today on Illinois increasing the number of classes for wrestling, track and soccer from two to three.
OK, so Illinois has three classes for those sports — Kansas has four for wrestling, six for track and three for boys soccer, two for girls soccer.
Illinois has basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball moved to four classes last year. Kansas has six classes in basketball and volleyball, five in softball and baseball. Illinois has eight classes in football, while Kansas has 7 (eight-man has two divisions, two champions).
My point? Illinois’ population in 2006 was nearly 13 million. Kansas’ population in 2006? Nearly 3 million.
I definitely believe that there are too many classes. Not everyone has to be a winner. It’s OK to work hard to be the best and not receive a trophy if you’re not. Yet we obviously think that every athlete needs an award (look at postseason honors!).
Why not combine Class 6A and 5A? That’s an easy one right there. Why not combine 8-man into one, instead of having two divisions? Yes, there would be fewer teams making the playoffs, but already half the teams make the playoffs in 6A through 2-1A. Isn’t that a little ridiculous? And if you want to give everyone that chance at the postseason, scrap the district system, put in an 8-game schedule and make the ninth game a postseason game, just like basketball has (everyone gets 21 games with the 21st game being the postseason game. Win and you advance.)
Your thoughts?
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:40 pm
You are on the right track !
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July 3rd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I wouldn’t mind combining the 8 man classes, but I kind of like 5A and 6A with 32 teams each.
Here’s my argument in keeping 5A and 6A seperate:
The combined 9th through 11th grade enrollment figured by the KSHSAA of the 32 schools in 6A is around 45,000 students. Obviously only half of those 45K are male and a smaller percentage of them actually play football, but to keep it simple about 22,500 boys grade 9-11 have the opportunity to play in a single championship game.
In 5A the estimated total 9-11 enrollment of the 32 schools is around 24000, so 12000 boys have a chance at a state title.
In 4A, there’s 64 teams and they total about 22400 total students 9-11 so about 11200 boys.
3A: 64 teams total about 10880 students, so about 5400 boys given the opportunity
2A: 52 teams total of about 5200 total, 2600 boys having an opportunity
8 man 1- only about 1800 boys
8 man 2- about 1200 boys.
Grant it, I’m not a small-school guy myself, but it’s just ricidulous to me that we have state championships based on a potential playing pool of 1200 boys, yet we’re thinking of combining 22000 and 12000 potential playing pools together.
All you do if you combine 5A and 6A is the further deteriation of the chances of the 5A teams in the 500 range of 9-11 enrollment to ever be able to compete for championships.
I’ve heard that it’s not really significant to win a championship when there’s only 32 teams involved…Well I think the NFL has done fine with 31 teams.
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July 3rd, 2008 at 8:57 pm
TFL i usually have your back but your off on this one my friend. I completely believe its watered down now. 5a and 6a should for sure be combined for a “true” State Champ !
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July 3rd, 2008 at 9:07 pm
TFL, you make some good points. I enjoyed reading that. I still think that there are too many state champions, though.
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July 4th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I don’t know about there being too many classes. I think before the state looks at that they need to do something about the private schools geographically located in a 5 or 6A community and recruiting kids from a metro area for their programs but controlling their enrollment so they can fall into a class like 3 or 4A. In my opinion that needs to be addressed immediately with the KSHSAA.
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July 5th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Missouri has a multiplier system that has helped with that problem. Pittsburg-Colgan, Topeka-Hayden, St. Thomas Aquinas, Bishop Carroll, and Kapaun would all be affected by this, but I’d say only 1 or 2 of these schools actually go beyond the rules.
I’d say leave it as it is. Pitt-Colgan is probably the only school that highly benefits from not having a multiplier, as I think BC, Hayden, and STA would compete well even if they were bumped up a class.
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July 5th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I’m curious to know what the private school folks would think about a multiplier system? What their thoughts would be about having a separate class (which I don’t think is feasible with the number of private schools that are in Kansas)?
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July 6th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Jo you definitely are right. We need to eliminate some classes or count from the bottom up instead of the top down. I would like to see 5 classes with the top 48 teams being the top class and then every other class have 64 until you run out of classes.
The enrollment discrepancies are pretty wide in 5A and 4A.
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July 7th, 2008 at 6:37 am
IMO, I think that you could combine the two classes and go to larger districts with the top 2 teams in each district going to the playoffs. The Kansas High School football season is minimized by the fact that a team can literally go 6-7 and be the state champion. Make it tougher to get to the playoffs.
Since I’m not originally from the state of Kansas maybe I’m just ignorant but I don’t understand the idea of the leagues (AVCT, City League) they have no standing on who goes to the playoffs so why have them? Why not let schools make their own non-district schedules. You could have a 64 team classification or even change the enrollment floor number and send the smallest 5a schools down the 4a and make it a 56 team class. Now you have 8 districts of 7-8 teams (6-7 district games and 2-3 non district games). Top 2 go the playoffs. You still have your 4 round playoff system but make it tougher to go to the playoffs.
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July 7th, 2008 at 9:49 am
I like the current system with six classes. When I started high school there were only five, and Class 5A had just 16 schools total (it didn’t take much to win a regional and be in the state championships back then). The enrollment disparity was huge between those top 16 schools and the next 32, which made up 4A. I think the current system has worked well for the past 30 years.
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July 7th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
LOL.
I so remember bringing this up to Joanna when i first got here. In Tennessee which is roughly, double the size of Kansas, football has 5 classes and everything else is mostly separated into three classes. However, that’s not including the private schools that play in their own division.
I think six classes is pretty watered down.
I agree with Hi Again. Maybe it should be harder to make the playoffs. And while combining 5A and 6A would create a monster championship game perhaps the split should involve 4A as well? Just a thought.
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July 7th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Screw Tennessee
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July 9th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I’m a spread the wealth kind of guy. I don’t see a problem with the number of state championships we now have, because the more teams that get involved the more opportunity they have of doing something special, thus generating excitement for the game.
If I would change anything, perhaps its the structure of the classifications. Class 6A and Class 5A have 32 teams.
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