VK Open discussion (11-30)
Nov. 30, 2009 @ 5:12 a.m. by Joannaby joanna
Amidst all the end of the season football going on, I hope you didn’t miss our basketball previews in Saturday and Sunday’s papers. Check on varsitykansas.com for all of them.
Want to talk basketball or football or wrestling or swimming? Here’s your chance to get a topic going.
Want to talk about the Heights at East basketball on Friday night? Feel free.
BobChi says:
November 30th, 2009 at 6:42 am
That will be a super opening night for basketball Friday – three of the best teams in the state in the same building (Heights and East boys, Heights girls). Indeed, when it comes to City League play, this is the single game that looms as the most difficult for Heights boys – first game of the season, away to the strongest opponent on the schedule. I pick Heights by one point in overtime. Should be a fun night of basketball.
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thelogo44 says:
November 30th, 2009 at 9:21 am
I’m going with East by double digits.
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Swim Mom says:
November 30th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Anyone know if Moreland (Heights) is swimming this year?
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Jim Cross says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Read the football wrap up Blog talking about Heights and Smith Center. Which brings me to the articles in the Sunday Eagle. The one by Bob Lutz and City League fortunes being down because of lack of Middle School football. In his article the Heights coach stated that he will regroup in June for the 2010 season. In reading the article about Smith Center’s loss, Coach Barta stated, “that the team would take Sunday off then start preparing for the next game on Monday”. That is why they had a 79 game winng streak. I know that both situations are very different, and there are fewer disstractions in a small community. They live and breath athletics in that community, and every person in that town treats each young athlete as if they were their own child.
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Attitude Adjustment says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
While I imagine other sports are somewhat popular at Smith Center High School, football is king. In the Wichita schools, other sports are as equally popular as football. The smaller communities have some advantages that the bigger ones do not have.
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schmakey says:
November 30th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I was disappointed by the headline, “Looking PAST Perry”…..should have come up with a better headline to not make it sound like we’ve already seen enough of Perry. Yes, there are so many talented kids in this town and all deserve the same coverage, but the headline made it seem the other way. Just thought it was a bad choice.
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KS FOOTBALL says:
November 30th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Perry deserves all the press he gets so id get used to it. Ellis will have to really step up early with Wessel out with a broken hand until prob mid jan.
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KS FOOTBALL says:
November 30th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Lutz is a fool if he really believes thats the number 1 reason city league football strugles. Its a factor but one thats down on the list. Id have to write a book to address this in the detail it deserves so its probably better for the dicussion board.Its a complete copout to blame the city leagues failure on not having middle school football.
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HITMAN says:
November 30th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
here ought to be a nice discussion…BB substate assignments are already out in all classes. 6A is as follows:
SUB-STATE (March 3-6)
Shawnee Mission-Northwest – Richard Grinage, Manager [Bracket A] [Bracket B]
Lawrence, Lawrence-Lawrence Free State, Leavenworth, Shawnee Mission-East, Shawnee Mission-North, Shawnee Mission-Northwest, Shawnee Mission-South, Shawnee Mission-West
Stilwell-Blue Valley – Bob Whitehead, Manager [Bracket A] [Bracket B]
Olathe-East, Olathe-North, Olathe-Northwest, Olathe-South, Overland Park-Blue Valley North,
Overland Park-Blue Valley Northwest, Overland Park-Blue Valley West, Stilwell-Blue Valley
Wichita-East – Kevin Hartley, Manager[Bracket A] [Bracket B]
Derby, Junction City, Manhattan, Topeka, Topeka-Washburn Rural, Wichita-East, Wichita-Heights,
Wichita-Southeast
Wichita-South – Michelle Kuhns, Manager [Bracket A] [Bracket B]
Dodge City, Garden City, Goddard, Haysville-Campus, Maize, Wichita-North, Wichita-Northwest, Wichita-South
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HITMAN says:
November 30th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
in the South substate Maize and North SHOULD make it to the big dance.
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HITMAN says:
November 30th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
actually DC may be right there too. I believe they will be pretty tough this year
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thelogo44 says:
November 30th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Maize and North? Ok, lets not everyone forget these predictions when the time rolls back around.
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thelogo44 says:
November 30th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Who does Maize have anyway? And Dodge City? Looking at the schedule here, looks like will get to see the poweful Maize team take on lowly city league team Northwest in a week or so. What do you think Hitman, Maize by 20 or 30? Looks like on a Saturday also, Maybe I can check that one out.
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thelogo44 says:
November 30th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I’m trying to decide which will be the best game to go see opening night. Wish they were doing the Koch Arena all day deal again so could take a look at everyone. Probably South and West, it may be the most competative game of the night.
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sbcoach says:
December 1st, 2009 at 1:13 am
I wish they were doing the Hoopsfest at Koch arena this year again too. It’s a great thing to showcase all the basketball teams at WSU. Joanna, do you know anything about why they aren’t?
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Coach Beason says:
December 1st, 2009 at 8:55 am
KS Football –
I don’t want details – just give us a “Top 10 List” – Letterman Style -as why you think there are bigger reasons than middle school football holding back the CL.
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HITMAN says:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:05 am
thelogo44…yes please check back w/me in March so I can see you eat crow. Of course you won’t show and admit you don’t know squat. Later Goober.
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Voice of Reason says:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:58 am
Lack of middle school football is the second most significant factor in terms of a negative effect on CL football. #1 factor? Lack of parental support/ chaotic home lives
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Fan of the sport says:
December 1st, 2009 at 1:10 pm
I belive kapaun Mt. Carmel will have their first ever all african american starting line up this year. i dont know when though. Dyllon Knox Michael Martin Bryce Laveist Mesphin Small and Michael Reynolds. thats a great starting line up i Beileve that squad can give any team a run for their money
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and it matters...why? says:
December 1st, 2009 at 2:30 pm
“I believe kapaun Mt. Carmel will have their first ever all african american starting line up this year”–this is no place for coments like that…
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Crack says:
December 1st, 2009 at 4:25 pm
What the Hell does the color of your skin have to do with the City league race in basketball. IDIOT
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KS FOOTBALL says:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:30 pm
not in any exact order. support both from parents and admin. Talent evaluation of incoming players and teaching at the freshmam level. weight and contitioning programs.depth of “talent” on coaching staffs.From my experience freshman level players are not taught even close to the level they should be. Middle school football done the way it would be in 259 would be a joke. This is not an easy fix to be sure but it is a mess.Its not any 1 group or persons fault either. I for one am extreamly thankfull my son had the opportunity to be coached by an excellent coaching staff and to play 20 games a year against the best talent in the midwest if not the country . Having college style practices while being taught to be tech sound and how to play physical football. Middle school football could not provide this. I would say the High School coachs need to get out and work with the 5th,6th,7th,8th grade coachs in the city and build relationships that can and will benefit the kids and the high schools.This is a “short” version Coach Beason.
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thelogo44 says:
December 1st, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Ok “Hitman”, I will be here. Didn’t realize it had to get personal. I don’t even have to say how obvious it is that you do not watch a lot or know very much about basketball. Your “Maize is going to state” statement I would say pretty much says it for you. There seems to always be some person that doesn’t know anything that thinks they have to get on and just say something so stupid they know someone will respond! I just asked a simple question about why you thought Maize was going to be good. Well just be at the games when they play city league schools and you may learn something.
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HITMAN says:
December 1st, 2009 at 10:47 pm
it’s not personal. Just tired of you thinking any team in the CL could beat any team in the state of Kansas and not even break a sweat. And tell me who do you think is headed to state out of that substate? No wait let me guess it a toss up between North, NW, and South? I am not saying Maize could take Heights, East, or SE but I bet they would not get blown out either. Time will tell.
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Voice of Reason says:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:12 pm
There are a few things that could improve the level of football in the CL but unfortunately the most significant factors are hard fixes. As I stated before parental support is #1, not just for athletics but for the whole scope of the educational system. Middle school football, while many times more expensive of a remedey than 259 would ever undertake, would make the single most significant difference that the district could actually control. KSfootball- it sounds as if your kid had a great experience in youth football but sadly this is not the case for many of the programs in the wichita area. A middle school football program with coaches who are certified teachers would be a major improvement.
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KS FOOTBALL says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Voice you just made my point. “certified teachers” Thats exactly what would happen if we had middle shool football. School Teachers trying to coach football.This is the same problem we have at the high school level at a lot of schools. You are 100% correct that the youth program could use a major upgrade in coaching which can be done . This subject is to complex to really get into on the blog but i believe if the high school head coachs became more involved in teaching/training youth coachs it would help greatly. I realize a lot of people on here believe the “staffs” at 259 high schools are quality football coachs but im sorry its just not the case . This is not a knock on 259 Head coachs but when you have “teachers” or coachs from other sports picking up extra $$$ attempting to coach football its a big problem and it shows.Basketball you can get away with 1 or 2 really quality guys but football is a different animal. I promise you if your a person that has a decent “football IQ” you would be shocked at the lack of knowledge and/or application of knowledge to kids you would find in some of these staffs. Lets be real here if you can get film or really watch freshman,jv or even varsity football in 259 you will see mistake after mistake on assignments over and over again.Believe me i wish this wanst the case but the facts are there for all to see if you take an honest look.Voice your right theres no easy fix.
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Voice of Reason says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Your boy Brandon Clark is a certified teacher. Randy Dreiling is a certified teacher. Marvin Diener, Alan Schuckman, Rick Wheeler and Tom Young are certified teachers. That is who coachers HS football and that is who would coach MS football. No school in their right mind would pull in a science teacher with not athletic background and make him a coach. To be a coach in Kansas you have to teach (unless you are rule 10 and then you are an assistant). While I am no longer a teacher I made teaching my career so I could pursue my passion: football. I have a long history of coaching in the burbs and in the city. I know dozens of coaches all over the state and many of the staffs in the city are just as knowledgeable as those in burbs. Actually there are several staffs in the CL that are more accomplished and experienced than any local coaching staff outside of Hutch. The problem with CL football is not the coaching with the exception of a couple of schools (some schools are so down you couldn’t get a quality coach in there right now). If you take the Derby staff off the pedestal you have placed them on and put them at North they won’t win. If you put them at West they won’t win. If you put them at BC or Heights they don’t win the state title this year. As far as the youth leagues go CL coaches are limited in regrads to what they could do with the youth programs but this would not be the case with MS football. In any case it is a moot point as even with a booming economy and stacks of cash 259 would never start a MS football program. They would probably build a few more floors on to the downtown administration building and hire more people who don’t interact with kids…
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KS FOOTBALL says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Didnt know i put anyone on a pedestal voice and all of those are great coachs to be sure.That missrepresents what i was saying but no matter we can agree to disagree on the impact of middle school football and like you said the $$$ are not there anyway. I know there are limits etc this is part of the problem which im pretty sure we cant solve here.Im sure i expect more than a lot of people when is comes to this issue.
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KS FOOTBALL says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
However i would put Clark,Applebee and staff against anyone in the state all day every day. I have a feeling in the next 5/10 years there will be more people buying in on this as well.
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Voice of Reason says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Omit the pedestal reference- I should have said you think highly of the Derby staff
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LaneTech81 says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
HITMAN, what do you consider a blowout? Lose by 25 or more? 20 or more? 15 or more?
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KS FOOTBALL says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Enjoy the banter from all but its time for me to jump of this board because it will now be close to impossible to make comments without drawing undo attention away from where it belongs.This is 12,s show and its time for me to step away.
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Lushous Lou says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:09 pm
couldn’t have said it any better myself
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thelogo44 says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 pm
HITMAN,
No I don’t believe CL schools will blowout just any schools in kansas. SM northwest, Bishop Meige, Highland park and a few others can compete. Its just that the schools around here are not going to compete with CL. Sorry not trying to hurt feelings. Just a fact. And as usual another CL team will more than likely win state again. I mean no reason to get mad about something that year in and year out is true.
I get tired of year in and year out hearing how CL schools can’t compete for state in football, but I don’t get mad about it, cause them people are correct…..the CL can’t in football. I still root for them though. But this isn’t FB its basketball and Id say the proof is in the pudding if you look over the years and see how the CL stacks up at state.
And to answer your question, yes any of them three city league schools will beat maize. And the good thing about it is maize plays heights and nw during the season so go check them games out
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HITMAN says:
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:49 am
thelogo44….actually Maize will not play Heights this year. They were supposed to but because of a “Kansas vs Missouri” type of tourney up in KC that game will not take place. Both schools will complete in that instead. Maize will play NW and I will be at that game. I think that game is on 12/12???
your right the CL has fared well at the state tourney in class 6A. I have no issues with any of the CL schools nor with you. I just feel as though Maize will fare well this year. You may be right the CL schools may run right thru them like a hot knife thru butter but I think they can complete with them. Anyway sorry if I came off as an AH. Didn’t mean to. Let’s just see how it all plays out and we can discuss it throughout the season.
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LaneTech81 says:
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:42 am
thelogo44 says “any of them three would beat Maize” but HITMAN says “no blowout”
What constitutes a blowout as far as point margin?
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HITMAN says:
December 3rd, 2009 at 7:58 pm
i think that a blowout is subjective. Everyone has a diffent opinion.
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HITMAN says:
December 3rd, 2009 at 7:59 pm
sorry I should have said the definition of a blowout is subjective and everyone has a different opinion on what one is.
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LaneTech81 says:
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Since you made the statement, how close would Maize play the top three?
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HITMAN says:
December 5th, 2009 at 1:29 am
ok thelogo44 I may have to take back my Maize goes to state prediction. I watched them play Manhattan tonight. They won 56-54. They go 6′7″, 6′6″, 6′5″, 6′5″, 6′4″ across their front line and they gave up a ton of offensive boards tonight and didn’t get out on 3 pt shooters. Unless they shore up that rebounding and defense they are going to lose a number of games.
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